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Case 1:05-cv-01119-SGB Document 51-8 Filed 11/30/2007 Page 1 of 57

MOTION AND INCORPORATED MEMORANDUM



EXHIBIT 2

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IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF FEDERAL CLAIMS

ROCCO TOMMASEO, ET AL.
PLAINTIFFS

VERSUS 1:05-CV-1119 SGB

THE UNITED STATES, HON. SUSAN G. BRADEN
DEFENDANTS

VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF EDWARD
ROBIN, SR., 2324 FOREST LAWN HIGHWAY,
YSCLOSKEY, LOUISIANA 70085, TAKEN IN THE
OFFICES OF F. GERALD MAPLES, P.A., 902 JULIA
STREET, NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA 70113, ON THE
13TH DAY OF JUNE, 2007.

APPEARANCES:

F. GERALD MAPLES, P.A.
(BY: CARLOS A. ZELAYA II, ESQUIRE)
902 JULIA STREET
NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA 70113
(ATTORNEYS FOR THE PLAINTIFFS,
ROCCO TOMMASEO, ET AL.)

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
(BY: FRED R. DISHEROON, ESQUIRE
MARK T. ROMLEY, ESQUIRE)
601 D STREET, NW
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20044-0663

(ATTORNEYS FOR THE DEFENDANT,
THE UNITED STATES)

REPORTED BY:
CATHY RENEE POWELL, CCR
PROFESSIONAL SHORTHAND REPORTERS
(504)529-5255

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VIDEOGRAPHER:
BRIAN SOILEAU
PROFESSIONAL SHORTHAND REPORTERS

ALSO PRESENT:
GEOFF WEBSTER
JENNIFER A. LABOURDETTE

* * *
EXAMINATION INDEX
EXAMINATION BY MR. ZELAYA: .......... 4
EXAMINATION BY MR. DISHEROON: ....... 32
EXAMINATION BY MR. ZELAYA: .......... 49
* * *
INDEX OF EXHIBITS
Exhibit No. 14 ..................... 43
Map of Violet Canal with locations
marked by Mr. Robin.









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THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
Today is the thirteenth day of
June, 2007. The time is approximately
11:05. This is the videotaped deposition of
Edward Robin, Senior, taken at the offices
of F. Gerald Maples, located at 902 Julia
Street, New Orleans, Louisiana, for the case
entitled "Rocco Tommaseo, et al. versus the
United States," in the United States Court
of Federal Claims, Case 1:05-cv-1119 SGB.
Will counsel please introduce
themselves and which parties they represent.
MR. ZELAYA:
Carlos Zelaya of F. Gerald Maples,
P.A., on behalf of the plaintiffs.
MR. DISHEROON:
Fred Disheroon with the United
States Department of Justice, for the United
States, and with me is Mark Romley,
R-O-M-L-E-Y, also with the Department of
Justice, for the United States.
* * *
EDWARD ROBIN, SR.,
having been first duly sworn as a witness,
was examined and testified as follows:

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EXAMINATION BY MR. ZELAYA:
Q. Good morning, Mr. Robin. Would
you please state your full name and current
address for the record?
A. Full name is Edward John Robin,
Sr., 2324 Forest Lawn Highway, St. Bernard,
Louisiana 70058.
Q. And can you just give us some
rough idea of where that address is on
Forest Lawn Highway in St. Bernard Parish?
A. All the way down in Yscloskey.
Q. That is basically in the
eastern-most portion of St. Bernard Parish?
A. Right.
Q. Mr. Robin, what is your background
in terms of where you have lived during the
course of your life; where were you born and
where did you grow up?
A. I was born in New Orleans, but
raised in Yscloskey all my life.
Q. And how old are you, sir?
A. Eighty-one.
Q. What is your date of birth?
A. Three-9-26.
Q. Are you married?

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A. I was.
Q. Do you have any children?
A. Nine.
Q. What have you done for your
profession in the course of your life?
A. All my life, I have been a
fisherman and a trapper.
MR. DISHEROON:
Excuse me. Did he say trapper?
MR. ZELAYA:
Trapper.
THE WITNESS:
Trapped muskrats, otters, coons.
EXAMINATION BY MR. ZELAYA:
Q. What type of commercial fishing
have you done?
A. Practically everything. Shrimp,
crabs, oysters. Mostly oysters now.
Q. And when did you enter into that
profession, at what age?
A. Thirteen.
Q. And have you engaged in that
profession basically your entire life since
that point?
A. Yes.

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Q. In addition to doing commercial
fishing as your livelihood, do you ever have
occasion to fish recreationally?
A. Oh yeah, very much.
Q. Hopefully more so now than before?
A. More now, right.
Q. Would you say, sir, that you are
familiar with the waterways in Lower St.
Bernard Parish?
A. Quite a bit, yes.
Q. And do you, in fact, have a
familiarity with the Mississippi River Gulf
Outlet?
A. Yes, I have.
Q. Is there another name by which
people refer to the MRGO?
A. Just the channel, gulf channel.
Q. And do they pronounce it "Mister
Go," when they are referring to the
Mississippi River Gulf Outlet?
A. Right.
Q. I just wanted to establish that
convention, because sometimes I may refer to
the M-R-G-O, or the MRGO, and I'm talking
about the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet. Is

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that okay?
A. Right.
Q. Are you familiar with that
channel, sir?
A. Very much.
Q. Do you have a recollection of when
that channel was constructed?
A. I would say in late '65, or
something like that, maybe a little later
when it was completed.
Q. Okay. Were you familiar with the
area of where the MRGO is now located prior
to the construction of the MRGO?
A. Right.
Q. What was the general geography of
that area, what type of land was it before
the MRGO was constructed?
A. Before the MRGO, well, they had a
lot of hills with nice trees and cypress
trees, oak trees. You had levees all up in
there.
Q. Were there cypress swamps?
A. Oh, yeah.
Q. Did it also contain marshlands?
A. Right, yes.

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Q. Did you ever have occasion to
enter into those marsh areas?
A. Oh, yeah.
Q. Is that where you did your
trapping?
A. That's where I done my trapping.
Q. Have you basically resided in St.
Bernard Parish from the time of the
construction and completion of the MRGO
until the present day?
A. Yes.
Q. Has that geographic area we have
talked about changed over that period of
time?
A. Quite a bit, yes. Quite a bit.
Q. Can you describe those changes,
what you have observed?
A. Before, they used to have levees
down there with trees and high grass and
everything, which would stop the surf from
coming from the outside and the Gulf. It
would protect the wind and that too.
As of today, there is no more
levees, they are gone. Seems like the land
has sunk. All the trees is gone. All they

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got left is stumps, because they're dead.
Q. What about the marsh grasses?
A. Marsh is the same way.
Q. What about the wildlife that you
used to trap?
A. That's gone. The muskrats is
gone, they have very few otters left. In
other words, it don't pay you to trap
because there is not enough animals to trap
anyway.
Q. When you describe levees in the
area by the trees, are you referring to
manmade levees or something different?
A. No. Well, some of it was manmade,
yes, by digging out the canals and making a
levee. And that's where the trees grow
from, the cypress trees. But all of that
was considered because of having sweetwater
and that's how it grew. Today, there's no
more sweetwater.
Q. When you say "sweetwater," what
are you referring to?
A. Brackish water and sweetwater
is -- that's where the trees and that will
grow from. Trees do not grow in saltwater.

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The marshlands that they had, the marsh that
they had had cypress trees naturally caused
from sweetwater. Now, when the saltwater
came in there, that's what killed it off.
Q. How did the saltwater come into
that area?
A. Most of it came in since they dug
the MRGO.
Q. And are you familiar with the
length of the MRGO, where it originates in
the city --
A. Oh, yes.
Q. -- and where it exits St. Bernard
Parish?
A. Yes.
Q. And prior to the construction of
the MRGO, was there any such direct channel
from Lower St. Bernard where you are into
the City of New Orleans?
A. At that time, no.
Q. Okay.
A. Not before the channel.
Q. I'm going to talk about a slightly
different geographic area in Chalmette,
where the -- the intersection of Paris Road

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and the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet. Are
you familiar with that area?
A. Very much.
Q. At this point, as we sit here
today, how are you able to cross the
Mississippi River Gulf Outlet?
A. Before?
Q. Now. Today. Is there a bridge?
A. They got the Green Bridge, what we
call the Green Bridge that goes over the
Intracoastal Canal. The MRGO goes into the
Intracoastal Canal.
Q. Is basically the location where
that bridge is, what you refer to as the
Green Bridge, is that where the Mississippi
River Gulf Outlet intersects with the
Intracoastal Canal?
A. Right.
Q. And those channels then converge
and lead into the City of New Orleans?
A. Right.
Q. In that area along Paris Road,
what was it like before the construction of
the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet?
A. It was all cypress trees. It was

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all cypress trees and marsh and hills.
Levees.
Q. What is that area like today?
A. It's -- it's all gone now. The
only thing they got there is a couple of
willow trees. The cypress trees is gone.
The marsh is gone. The animals that used to
be there before, they're not there.
Q. Okay. Now, I want to go back to
the time of the construction of the
Mississippi River Gulf Outlet, which I think
you identified was in the mid-'60s or so.
A. Yes.
Q. In that period of time, did you
have occasion to observe when the MRGO was
being constructed, as they were actually
digging out the channel?
A. Yes.
Q. And at the time of the original
construction, how wide was the Mississippi
River Gulf Outlet?
A. When they started digging, it was
500 feet wide. I think it was about 40 feet
deep.
Q. And do you know how wide it is

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now, at that same location you were
referring to?
MR. DISHEROON:
Excuse me. I'm entering an
objection to your use of the term "width,"
because you are apparently using a different
definition than that contained in the
project authorization; that you are just
speaking about the physical width of the top
of the waterway and you are tying it to the
project, which we do not believe is
appropriate.
But, just so it is clear on the
record what you are asking him about.
MR. ZELAYA:
I will try to clarify that in case
you are confused, Mr. Disheroon.
EXAMINATION BY MR. ZELAYA:
Q. Mr. Robin, when you just answered
my question about the width of the MRGO,
tell me what you were referring to as the
width.
A. How wide it is from one beacon to
the other beacon. You got the port beacon
and you got the starboard. From one beacon

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to the other beacon was 500 feet wide.
Q. And has that width that you
referred to changed over the years?
A. Very much. The beacons is still
500 feet apart, but the land that's ate up
equals about 1,500, maybe 2,000 feet in
places.
Q. Now, have you noticed a change in
the reference to those beacons and their
distance to the shore?
A. Quite a bit. Especially Shell
Beach. One beacon was on land and now I
would say it is about a thousand feet out in
the water, maybe more.
Q. To your knowledge, has that beacon
been physically moved, did somebody pick it
up and move it?
A. No.
Q. Okay.
A. No.
Q. Now, you have talked about the
loss of the marsh grasses and the cypress
trees, and what have you observed in terms
of the saltwater that led to the death of
those swamp environments?

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A. I don't recall what you're talking
about.
Q. Well, have you seen the actual
loss of vegetation?
A. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Quite a bit.
Sure. You go right now and see what they've
got left. It is all dead trees, and then
they got stumps from the trees, the roots,
but all the grass and all that, and trees,
that's all dead.
Q. Now, has that change in the
existence of the swamp trees and the grasses
that you have described, is that something
that happened, like, you went to bed one
night and you woke up the next day and it
was suddenly different, or was that
something that happened gradually, over
time?
A. No, that happened gradually, over
time. What I have noticed, too, now, that
the land -- the land has been sinking,
especially where I live at. Where I live
at, down below, we used to have a baseball
field right behind the house. We drove our
cars and that back there. Today, when we

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get a good northeast wind blowing and an
east wind, it is one lake.
Q. When you referred to a northeast
wind that blows, are you referring to a
hurricane or just regular weather?
A. No, just regular weather. Just
regular -- anytime they got an east wind
blowing or a north wind blowing and you come
down there, you are going to see what I'm
talking about.
On normal tide, it's dry, but when
the northeast wind comes in, it's going to
be nothing but water.
Q. So, that land, where is that land
located you are describing?
A. Right behind my home.
Q. And is that more susceptible now
to flooding than it was before?
A. Right, right.
Q. Now, have you noticed a change in
the frequency and the duration of that
flooding that you have just described for
the past -- since, say, 2000?
MR. DISHEROON:
I'm going to object to your use of

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the term "flooding" unless you define it, as
what the witness seemed to refer to was
simply the tidal influence, and not what you
would typically consider a flood.
EXAMINATION BY MR. ZELAYA:
Q. Mr. Robin, I will ask you to use
your words and describe for me what you have
seen in terms of the water entering this
land, as you just described. I'm not trying
to put words in your mouth, but you tell me
what you perceive that to be.
A. What, the water coming in there
now?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. Before, it would take a little
hurricane or bad weather to come in and
flood the ground. Today, you don't have to
have no hurricane, all you have to have is
strong northeast winds and east winds and it
is all flooded. It wasn't like that before.
More so now.
Q. I'm going to ask you to direct
your attention to the passage of Hurricane
Lili. Do you remember when Hurricane Lili
passed in 2002?

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A. Yes, yes.
Q. Was there flooding as you have
described associated with the passage of
Hurricane Lili?
A. Yes, there was flooding. It was
flooding. Not that much.
Q. Okay.
A. But there was flooding.
Q. Now, using that as a point of
reference for time, has the flooding as you
have described and the intrusion of water
gotten worse since the passage of Hurricane
Lili?
A. Very much, yes.
Q. Has it occurred more frequently?
A. Yes.
Q. And has it been a greater amount
of water that has entered the land?
A. Much more.
Q. Now, with reference to the passage
of Hurricane Ivan, do you recall that
hurricane in 2004?
A. Yes.
Q. Was there an influx of water
associated with that hurricane?

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A. Yes.
Q. Comparing the water in 2004 from
Hurricane Ivan to the water with Hurricane
Lili, which one was worse?
A. In '4.
Q. 2004?
A. Yes.
Q. And you are referring to Hurricane
Ivan?
A. Right.
Q. I'm going to turn to an even more
recent event, the passage of Hurricane
Katrina. I'm sure you remember the passage
of that hurricane. Would you tell us where
you were when Hurricane Katrina passed
Louisiana?
A. For all the hurricanes that they
have had, I have never left from Yscloskey.
I stood in my boats in every hurricane that
they had except Katrina. I moved all my
boats up the Violet Canal behind the locks.
Q. When you refer to your boats, are
you referring to your commercial fishing
vessels?
A. Right. My oyster boats.

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Q. And you relocated those for
Katrina where?
A. In the Violet Canal.
Q. And tell me what happened as the
storm passed.
A. I stood with all of my boats. One
of my sons stood in his house, my other son
stood in his house, and my other son stood
in their house. And their homes is one on
Judge Perez, one is in Poydras, and the
other one is in South Lake.
Q. Let me interrupt you a moment.
Whose house was in Poydras?
A. Brad and Don's.
Q. And those are two of your sons?
A. Right. Only one son stood.
MR. DISHEROON:
Could you get the location of
those areas, those names? Where they are in
proximity to his residence?
MR. ZELAYA:
I will try. Poydras is a
location, just so you understand.
MR. DISHEROON:
I know, but I don't know where it

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is in relation to where he is.
THE WITNESS:
It is on Highway 46.
MR. DISHEROON:
That was my point.
EXAMINATION BY MR. ZELAYA:
Q. Is Poydras closer to the City of
New Orleans than Yscloskey?
A. Oh, yeah.
Q. And is Poydras closer to Chalmette
than Yscloskey?
A. Yes.
Q. But Poydras is between Chalmette
and Yscloskey, correct?
A. Right.
Q. And you said it is on Louisiana
Highway 46?
A. Right.
Q. Which is also known as St. Bernard
Highway?
A. Right.
MR. ZELAYA:
Mr. Disheroon, does that help you
get a better reference?
MR. DISHEROON:

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As to that one, yes, but he
mentioned two other locations, the other
sons.
MR. ZELAYA:
I'm going to get to those right
now.
EXAMINATION BY MR. ZELAYA:
Q. You also talked about your son's
property on South Lake. Is that correct?
A. Right.
Q. And whose property is that?
A. That is Chris'.
Q. And where is that property located
relative to either Yscloskey or Poydras?
A. That is right off of Judge Perez.
Q. And Judge Perez is a main
thoroughfare through St. Bernard Parish?
A. Right.
Q. And you referred to another
property. Where was that one?
A. Pete's.
Q. Where is Pete's property located?
A. Pete's is right off of Judge
Perez, closer to Yscloskey, though.
Q. Okay.

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MR. ZELAYA:
This may help. I have a little
map that will give us some quick references.
EXAMINATION BY MR. ZELAYA:
Q. Mr. Robin, take a look at this
map. Can you locate Yscloskey on the map?
A. Yes.
Q. If you would, just put an
underline under where Yscloskey is located.
And can you locate Poydras on the
map? If you would underline that.
And you said that the other houses
of Chris and Pete were between Poydras and
Yscloskey. Is that correct?
A. Pete's house is -- Pete's house
should be around here.
Q. Would you just put an "X"
approximately where Pete's house is located.
A. That's it, right there.
Q. And if you would put a "P" above
that "X", so we will know you were referring
to Pete.
Okay. Now, you said your sons
were located in their respective homes when
the hurricane passed, but you were on the

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family fishing vessel, correct?
A. Right. I was on the boat.
Q. Now, tell me what happened that
day.
A. The only one I could keep in touch
with through telephone would be my son Don.
Don was in Poydras. My son Pete that was
in -- off of Judge Perez, I couldn't
communicate with him, and I couldn't
communicate with Chris, but Don could
communicate with them.
So, all during the night, I kept
in touch with him and he kept in touch -- we
kept in touch with one another.
Q. Okay. Now, what happened in the
early morning of 29 August 2005?
A. Okay. The hurricane -- the lights
went out at 4:00 in the morning. I had the
TV on at all times watching the weather. At
4:00, the lights went out. When the
hurricane comes, it comes from the
northeast. After the eye passes, the wind
comes from the southeast.
That morning, at 4:00, when the
lights went out, that's when I called my son

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up, Don, and asked him how things was going.
He said, "Dad," he said, "everything is
gone." He said, "Looks like," he said,
"that it's calming down."
I said, "No, honey, it's not
calming down. It's calming down now because
the eye is over us," I said, "but watch when
it switches." I said, "When it switches,
it's going to come stronger."
Mind you, I told them since they
didn't want to stay in the boat with me, I
told them to make sure that they put an
outboard motor by each one of their houses,
because you never know what might happen.
Around daylight is when I was in
the boat. I never did sleep all during the
night, naturally. When I looked to the
highrise, the bridge, I seen about -- to me,
it looked like about a 5- or 6-foot swell
coming down the canal.
MR. DISHEROON:
Excuse me, what bridge are you
referring to?
EXAMINATION BY MR. ZELAYA:
Q. What bridge are you describing?

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A. The bridge that goes over the
Violet Canal. The highrise. We call it the
highrise.
Q. Is that the bridge that crosses
the Violet Canal on Judge Perez Drive?
A. On Judge Perez, right. Right on
Judge -- that's where we had the boats tied,
right there by the bridge.
MR. DISHEROON:
Could he locate that on the map,
please?
EXAMINATION BY MR. ZELAYA:
Q. Can you see the area where the
bridge would be located that you are
describing?
A. I would say the bridge would be
about right here.
Q. Right about the "T" in Violet?
A. Where it says "Violet" there,
yeah. I would say about right here is where
the bridge should be. Because this is the
outlet that goes into the MRGO.
Q. And if you could, just draw a
circle where you just referenced.
A. Where the bridge was?

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Q. Yes, sir. And I'm just going to
write in the word "Bridge."
A. Okay.
Q. Okay. You said you looked toward
the bridge and you saw water?
A. To me, it liked like, I don't
know, 5 or 6 feet, a swell that was coming.
When I seen it -- I had my truck
behind the levee. When I seen it coming, I
run for my truck to run it on top of the
levee, thinking I would save it. About the
time I got to the truck and got it back to
the levee, when I got to the truck, I was up
to here in water (indicating). The boats --
Q. When you were referring to the
height of the water, you said right at above
the level of your waist; is that what you
were referring to?
A. When I got out of the truck, the
water was up to here on me (indicating).
The boats was already on top of the levee.
Now, mind you, before that swell
came in there, or the surge, whatever you
want to call it, it was about 4 feet below.
By the time I got out of the truck and got

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to the levee, it was about 5 feet up on top
already. All the boats was up there.
I got to the boat, and on the side
of the boat we got what we call a bumper, to
stop one boat from hitting the other, with a
rubber tire on it. I made a pass at the
rubber tire and I missed it the first time.
And then, when the boat came back on me
again, that's when I grabbed it.
Q. At this point, were you walking or
swimming or what were you doing?
A. I was up to here in water
(indicating). I was swimming, trying to get
to that tire to get on my boat. Finally, I
grabbed it and I climbed on the boat.
When I climbed on the boat, I
looked for my truck. My truck wasn't there.
I never seen the truck no more. Three days
later is when I seen the truck.
Q. Let me interrupt you a moment.
When you described the wall of water that
was 5 or 6 feet high that was approaching
you, was that coming from the direction of
the MRGO?
A. Right, right. Yes.

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Q. And how long of a period of time
was it from the time you first observed that
wall of water until you got to your boat?
A. Shoot, man. Minutes. A matter of
minutes.
Q. I'm going to now direct your
attention to just a month later,
approximately in September of 2005, when
another hurricane passed through Louisiana.
A. Rita.
Q. That was Hurricane Rita. Do you
recall that?
A. Yes.
Q. Where were you for Hurricane Rita?
A. I was in Baton Rouge.
Q. Did you have occasion to return to
Lower St. Bernard?
A. Yes.
Q. And did you observe flooding
associated with the passage of Hurricane
Rita?
MR. DISHEROON:
Could you clarify when, that is,
how long after Rita he was there?
MR. ZELAYA:

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I will get there.
MR. DISHEROON:
All right.
MR. ZELAYA:
And you will certainly have your
turn, Mr. Disheroon, as well.
MR. DISHEROON:
Well, it would just be easier if
you would do it now.
EXAMINATION BY MR. ZELAYA:
Q. You were about to describe for me
the flooding that you associated with
Hurricane Rita.
A. It was about the same thing, maybe
more.
Q. Now, when was it that you made
these observations, or when did you come
back to St. Bernard? And we're talking
about after Hurricane Rita.
A. After Katrina, I stood on the boat
six days. Rita hit just about the month --
25 days to a month after. That's when Rita
hit.
If Rita would have took the same
path as Katrina, there wouldn't have been

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nothing left.
Q. And how long after Rita hit was it
before you returned to St. Bernard, when you
saw that flooding the second time?
A. I think it was a couple of weeks.
Q. Okay.
A. They didn't leave us come back,
and all our boats was tied up with nobody on
it.
Q. Did you return to St. Bernard in
the period of time between the passages of
Hurricane Katrina and Rita?
A. No. I came back after Rita.
Q. Okay. When you came back after
Rita, there was still flooding?
A. Oh, yeah, yes. Very much.
Q. Okay. Now, has that flooding that
you have described associated with the
passage of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, has
that interfered with the use of you and your
family's property down in St. Bernard?
A. Oh, yeah. Up until right now. We
still -- up until right now, everything is
still all messed up. We ain't got
nothing -- I mean, we ain't got nothing down

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there at all.
Q. And finally, Mr. Robin, you said
that now, as you sit here today, when a
nor'easter comes through, or a bad weather
event, a strong wind, that you still observe
the water influx as you described earlier?
A. Quite a bit. More so now than
ever.
Q. Okay. When was the last time you
observed that type of event?
A. Last week.
Q. So, that was just a week ago from
when we are sitting here?
A. When that hard north wind was
blowing and all that, when they predicted
high tides and so forth, that was all
flooding.
MR. ZELAYA:
Okay. Thank you, sir. I don't
have any further questions. I tender the
witness.
EXAMINATION BY MR. DISHEROON:
Q. Mr. Robin, I'm Fred Disheroon.
I'm an attorney for the United States. I
have a few questions to ask you.

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Did you do any work on the MRGO
when it was being constructed, or you just
observed what went on?
A. No, sir.
Q. Okay. How often did you observe
the work in the construction of that
project?
A. I don't understand.
Q. How many times, or over what
period of time did you observe construction
going on?
A. Looking at them working and that?
Q. Yes.
A. Well, like a fisherman, I would be
going in and out all different times, you
know. I mean -- God only knows how many
times.
Q. Okay. You had referred to the
condition that existed before the project,
and you think the project was finished
around 1965 or shortly thereafter. Is that
correct?
A. I think so, yeah. Around '65.
Q. And when I say, "the project," I
mean the MRGO project.

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A. I would say so.
Q. You referred to digging some
canals that had caused -- that had
connections with levees. What types of
canals were those?
A. Okay, like the canal that they
call Bayou La Loutre, that was -- before
they dug the channel, that used to be one of
our routes going out to the Gulf, was going
through Bakers, going through St. Malo,
Bayou La Loutre. That was the only canals
that was leading out to the Gulf.
Q. And because of the nature of the
land around where you live, you needed the
canals in order to get out, did you not?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Okay. Because in its natural
condition, you wouldn't have been able to
drive boats through?
A. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
Q. Okay. And these were privately
dug canals or government or --
A. Some of them was privately dug,
some of them was just natural. Naturally, a
canal is usually started -- if you don't dig

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it -- it's usually started from a little
ditch, what we call. And then, after years
of passing through it and that, naturally,
it gets wider and deeper. And that's where
that came in there.
Q. Okay. And you referred to that
some of the levees were the result of
digging these canals. Is that right?
A. Right. Some of the --
Q. They had just taken the dirt and
piled it along the side?
A. Right. In other words, they dug
the canal to get it deeper, and they would
take the mud and put it on both sides.
Naturally, that formed a levee. And because
of the sweetwater at the time, that's where
the cypress trees came up from, the oak
trees and willow trees, and that's what
built the levee up. It also built a
barricade for bad weather and wind for us.
Q. To your knowledge, did the Army
Corps of Engineers have anything to do with
the construction of any of those levees that
you referred to before the MRGO project?
A. I don't believe, no.

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Q. And to be clear, when you talk
about sweetwater, is that the same thing
people normally refer to as freshwater?
A. Freshwater.
Q. As opposed to salty water coming
from the Gulf?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Okay. Now, after the construction
of MRGO, you said there was a gradual change
in the trees and the vegetation and the
marshes. Can you sort of describe how that
progressed? I mean, did it commence almost
immediately after it was constructed, and
what did you notice over the time?
A. Well, it took a little while to --
as the ships started passing through there
and more traffic started passing through
there, naturally, that's what started eating
it up. That's where it started to get more
wider.
Q. And that was in a couple of years,
or --
A. Yeah. Couple of years after it
started. You could see it. You could see
it year after year. And it was developing

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more and more.
Q. Physically, can you distinguish
between freshwater on the ground and
saltwater? Is there any way that you can
tell just by looking at it, I mean, other
than tasting it?
A. Well, you can look at it by the
vegetables that is growing.
Q. The vegetation?
A. The vegetation that's growing
there, you can tell. And if there is any
saltwater that's coming in, plenty saltwater
coming in, you are going to see where it's
dying. If it was freshwater, it would be
growing. But by this here, it would be
dying, and you can notice it.
Excuse me.
(Witness's cell phone rang.)
EXAMINATION BY MR. DISHEROON:
Q. Did you begin to observe that
shortly after the project was constructed,
that there were changes in the vegetation?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. That the freshwater vegetation was
dying out?

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A. Yes.
Q. Did you see changes in the amount
of the elevations of the land where it
was -- you said it was --
A. It was sinking.
Q. There was sinking, subsidence?
A. Yes.
Q. Are there any oil wells or
platforms, any type of oil exploration
anywhere in your area?
A. At that time, they never had too
many oil wells around it. Now they got a
lot of oil wells. Lake Borgne hadn't had
any wells in it at all. Now they got a lot
of wells all over Lake Borgne, all over in
the marsh on the outside. Yes, sir.
Q. So, could you sort of describe for
us over what period of time you saw these
changes taking place? I mean, when it
became evident to you. Was it five or ten
years, I mean, before it was obvious what
was going on?
MR. ZELAYA:
Object to the form of the
question. Which changes are we discussing

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now, the vegetation or the oil wells?
MR. DISHEROON:
I'm sorry. I'm back to the
vegetation.
EXAMINATION BY MR. DISHEROON:
Q. Changes in vegetation.
A. Yeah, every year, you could see a
difference in it. Yes. As years passed on,
you could see it more and more and more.
Q. You described the beacons -- when
you were asked about the width of the
channel, you described the beacons.
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And you said those have not
changed over the years, they are still where
they were from the beginning?
A. Right. The beacons is still there
and the width between the two of them is
still the same.
Q. Right.
A. But from the beacon to the land is
different. That ate up on both.
Q. Right. But the actual area where
ships pass is still the area between the
beacons, correct?

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A. The ships would pass between two
beacons.
Q. Right. The ships don't go outside
the beacons; they would run aground,
wouldn't they?
A. No. They would run aground.
Q. Can you tell me, roughly, the
width area? You have described the growth,
but how deep is the water? And I know it
may vary, but how deep is the water in those
areas outside the beacons?
A. Outside the beacons, naturally, is
shallower. I would say between the two
beacons, it varies. Maybe 35 feet in some
places, maybe 40 feet in some places. Maybe
30 feet.
Now, on the outside of the beacon,
no. When you go on the outside of the
beacon, either way, on the right-hand side
of the beacon going out or on the left-hand
side of the beacon going out, from the
beacon to the land, I would say maybe 10
feet to 15 feet. And as it goes further, it
gets shallower.
Q. Okay. You mentioned Shell Beach.

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Is that a location near where you live?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Okay. Could I see the map,
please?
First, could you point out on the
map where Shell Beach is? Just put an "S",
if you would.
A. Shell Beach now is right on the
MRGO, the channel.
Q. Yes.
A. Before, Shell Beach was on the
lake, okay? And when they dug the channel,
they took all the people from Shell Beach
and they moved it on this side of the
channel.
Q. On the --
A. So, it's --
Q. On the inside of the channel?
A. Right. So that's why they call
this here, now, they call that Shell Beach.
But the original Shell Beach was right here,
right by the lake.
Q. Okay.
A. But when they dug the MRGO, they
moved everybody from over here and put them

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over there. That is why they called that
Shell Beach.
Q. Did they move them because the
construction was coming through where Shell
Beach had been?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. At the time the MRGO was finished,
say, in '67 or so, how far was your
residence from Lake Borgne in terms of, you
know, you had land between you and the lake?
A. Well, they used to have a
beacon -- the beacon was on the land.
Before they cut the channel, the beacon was
on the land. The railroad used to run all
the way to the beacon. The railroad track.
Now, the beacon is in the same place, but
it's about a thousand feet out in the water.
Q. Okay. And that is still part of
Lake Borgne?
A. That is Lake Borgne, yes, sir.
Q. Okay.
A. And right here is where the Fort
is at, Fort Beauregard. Okay?
Q. Okay.
A. That was way on land. Way on

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land. Land all the way around. Now, it's
out in the water.
Q. And how long has it been out in
the water, going back from the present time?
A. It has been some time, because
what they done, they put a set of jetty
rocks all the way around it to preserve it,
to keep it as a monument.
Q. Was that done as a part of the
MRGO project?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Because they anticipated this
would happen?
A. I would say that. I think they
put them rocks in there -- I would say about
three or four years ago.
Q. Okay.
MR. DISHEROON:
Are you going to make that an
exhibit?
MR. ZELAYA:
Yes.
EXAMINATION BY MR. DISHEROON:
Q. You referred to the baseball park
behind your house --

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A. Yes, sir.
Q. -- and you said that you now get
water whenever the wind is blowing from the
northeast. Is that water coming in from
Lake Borgne, the tide?
A. That water mostly is coming from
Black Bay, what we call.
Q. I'm sorry?
A. Black Bay. Excuse my expression,
but the right name is Nigger Lake, and
recently, they put it Black Bay. But that's
where the water comes from when -- and from
Lake Borgne, too. Naturally, it comes from
Lake Borgne, from the channel, and it also
comes from Black Bay.
Today, when the water comes up, it
is all one Gulf. It is all Gulf. It's
nothing but water. Before, it wasn't.
Q. So, there is no --
A. No levees.
Q. Yes. Essentially, Lake Borgne is
right in your backyard?
A. Right. Behind my backyard was a
big levee with the oak trees planted on it
and the cypress trees. And that was one

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protection of stopping the water from coming
in, and from the wind, too. Today, there is
nothing.
Q. Okay. And was that a levee that
the Corps of Engineers built when they built
MRGO?
A. No, sir.
Q. Where did that levee come from?
A. That was -- well, that was a
little before my time, I guess.
Q. Okay. It was there prior to
your --
A. Yes. That was just natural. That
was natural.
Q. Okay. So, it was not a
man-built --
A. No, sir.
Q. -- it was a natural structure?
A. Well, at one time, which was
before my time, too, they had sugarcane
fields back there, they had rice fields all
over. It was all high land.
Q. And it is all gone now?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And how long has it been gone?

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A. Quite some time.
Q. What number of years would you --
A. I couldn't tell you.
Q. Over ten years?
A. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Much so. Yeah.
Q. You referred to the Green Bridge
area that is the conjunction of the MRGO and
the Intracoastal Waterway. You said that
area, before the MRGO, had been freshwater
vegetation and all?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Now, the Intracoastal Waterway was
already there, was it not?
A. Yes.
Q. You were referring to the area
where the MRGO was located?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. But the bridge comes across the
Intracoastal Waterway, does it not?
A. That is what they call the Green
Bridge.
Q. Yes.
A. That is the one that goes across
the Intracoastal Canal.
Q. It doesn't go across MRGO?

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A. Right.
Q. So, the area you were describing
there was the area that the navigation
project came through?
A. Yes, yeah.
Q. Okay. Now, you were discussing
where you were during Hurricane Katrina, and
you said the boats were on top of the levee.
Which levee were you referring to there?
A. That is the levee on both sides of
the Violet Canal. The levee where my boats
was at would be on the west levee, west
side. Violet Canal is the east side, they
got a levee. And there is a levee on the
west side. I was on the west side.
When I'm referring to the boats on
top of the levee, that's where they went.
They were on top of it.
Q. The water just took the --
A. The water come up; naturally, we
couldn't hold it back. We couldn't stop it.
Q. How high overall did the water get
that came through there, do you know, the
height?
A. They had homes there -- I would

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have to say that maybe 15 feet or higher.
All you could -- after it was over, all that
was sticking out was some roofs of the
houses were sticking out. Some of them,
there wasn't no roof. Everything was under.
Q. And how high were the levees that
your boats were on?
A. Where my boat was at, at normal
tide, is about 6 feet high.
Q. So, the water was that much
over --
A. That much more over.
Q. So, they completely overtopped the
levees?
A. Right.
Q. Just came right through, but the
levees didn't do much good?
A. Didn't do no good at all. If I
wouldn't have been on the boats, we would
have lost them all, because it pushed
everything on top of the levee, behind the
levee. And as the water went down, that's
when I moved all the boats out to the middle
of the channel. If not, we would have lost
them.

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Q. Yes. Good thinking.
MR. DISHEROON:
I have nothing further. Thank you
very much, Mr. Robin.
EXAMINATION BY MR. ZELAYA:
Q. Mr. Robin, I would like to clarify
some of the additional markings you placed
on this map.
The first point of reference is
where you have underlined Yscloskey. Is
that basically where your home is located?
A. Yes.
Q. And then, you circled the word
"Beach" where it says, "Old Shell Beach."
Is that circle the current location of Shell
Beach?
A. Yes. It is about right here.
Right on the water. That's the canal that
goes straight across. That's it right now,
where Shell Beach is right now.
Q. And I'm just going to mark that as
"Current Shell Beach."
A. Okay.
Q. And you have another dot here that
you referred to earlier as the old location

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of Shell Beach on Lake Borgne. Which
marking is that?
A. Right -- this right here. That's
where the beacon is at now.
Q. The beacon? I'm going to mark --
just mark that as "Beacon," so we have it
referenced.
Is that correct, is that where you
identified the beacon?
A. Right.
Q. Okay. Is this other dot the old
Shell Beach location?
A. That would be the old Shell Beach,
right.
Q. Okay. Now, the area between the
beacon and the shore, at the time of the
original construction of the MRGO, that was
dry land?
A. That was land.
Q. And today, it is covered with
water. Correct?
A. Right. Okay, here, from Shell
Beach, the old Shell Beach, they used to
have the road that ran all the way to St.
Malo. They had the road. Highway with

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light poles and everything on it. Today,
them light poles is anywhere from 500 to
1,000 feet out in the lake. That's happened
from the time that they dug the ship channel
until now. All of that is eaten up.
Where it used to be a road, you
can go out there and see it now. The
pilings is still there, which they cut them
and they left them sticking out maybe about
4 or 5 feet. So, there is a row of piles
from Shell Beach all the way to St. Malo.
That's where the road was. You can go out
there and see that, that part there, how
much it is eaten up.
Q. We were talking earlier about the
water -- Mr. Disheroon asked you about the
water that comes behind your house. When
you are referring to behind your house where
the baseball field used to be, can you mark
where that would be?
A. Yeah. It comes in through here.
Comes in through Black Bay.
Q. Just put a marking where the
baseball field used to be.
A. It's got to be right behind the

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house. It's got to be in this area right in
here.
Q. We will go ahead and mark that
then.
Where you have the word
"Yscloskey" underlined, if that's your
house, where would the baseball field be
relative to that?
A. It would be right in the back of
it.
Q. Just put an X there.
A. It should be about right here.
Q. I'm just going to mark that as
"Baseball Field."
And is the MRGO between the
baseball field or your house and Lake
Borgne? In other words, if you wanted to go
from your house to Lake Borgne, would you
have to cross the MRGO?
A. No.
Q. No?
A. If --
Q. Going from your house to Lake
Borgne.
A. Yes. Yes, I would have to cross

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the MRGO.
Q. Okay.
A. Yeah, I would have to cross it.
Q. Just trying to get those
references.
And we have talked about the Green
Bridge at Paris Road.
A. Okay.
Q. Could you just mark where that
would be located?
A. The Green Bridge has got to be
here.
Q. Just put a circle there.
A. Let's see. Let me get this.
That's got to be it there, because here's
the MRGO here, it runs into the Intracoastal
here. That's the Green Bridge right there.
Q. I'm just going to mark that as
Green Bridge.
Now, how far is it, approximately,
in miles from your house in Yscloskey to the
Green Bridge, if you know?
A. About 15 miles, I imagine.
Q. Okay. Now, when you said you made
observations about the change in the

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vegetation in the cypress swamps as the
saltwater moved in, did it take longer for
the cypress swamps and the marshes to die
closer to the Green Bridge as opposed to by
your house in Yscloskey?
A. Yeah, yeah. Ours died much before
the Green Bridge.
Q. How long was it before it got to
the Green Bridge where the vegetation
started dying, was it a matter of months,
days or years?
A. No. It had to be years.
MR. ZELAYA:
Thank you, sir; that's all I have.
I would like to offer, introduce and file
this exhibit as Exhibit 14, continuing the
numbers that were in use in yesterday's
deposition.
Thank you.
THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
This deposition is ended; it is
12:00.
(Which concluded the deposition.)



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WITNESS' CERTIFICATE

I have read or have had the foregoing
testimony read to me and hereby certify that
it is a true and correct transcription of my
testimony with the exception of any attached
corrections or changes.




_________________________
ROBIN EDWARDS, SR.
PLEASE INDICATE
( ) NO CORRECTIONS
( ) CORRECTIONS; ERRATA SHEET(S) ENCLOSED








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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE

I, Cathy Renee' Powell, Certified
Court Reporter, do hereby certify that the
above-named witness, after having been first
duly sworn by me to testify to the truth,
did testify as hereinabove set forth;
That the testimony was reported by me
in shorthand and transcribed under my
personal direction and supervision, and is a
true and correct transcript, to the best of
my ability and understanding;
That I am not of counsel, not related
to counsel or parties hereto, and not in any
way interested in the outcome of this
matter.




___________________________________
CATHY RENEE' POWELL, CCR
Certified Court Reporter